Originally by: CANN0N FODDER

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What I don't get is the excuse "dictors that go 9km/s, or ceptors that go 20km/s"

Most ceptors you see going 20km/s are overloading their MWD. Uh... that's what the overheat was designed for.

The rare ceptors and dictors and vagas and other speed tanked ships that are INSANELY fast, are done so through isk. People work quite hard to afford snake sets and faction gear and play for quite some time to have the skills needed to get these speeds.

It's not like everyone is flying with these speeds either. You're taking an example and blowing it out of proportion.

Spending billions on a ship should damn well give you the right to fly at incredible speeds and should definately give you that "near uncatchable" ability. No ship is uncatchable, even at those speeds, and what if a speed fit ship has to run away from you. You whine because you missed out on a kill because you didn't have a web, or a huggin? or something(whatever) else that didn't counter what he brought?

It just amazes me the amount of childish thinking that comes on here. "but... but mom... he has something better than me. I want it! I want it! I want it! or at least... if I can't have it, take it away from them! It's not fair that they have it and I don't! wahhh...."

No, I don't have snakes, nor do I fly speed fitted ships, but I totally dissagree with anyone who claims speed tanking is out of hand.

You people need to grow up.

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Originally by: Dray

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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No people dont work hard to buy snakes and faction stuff. They buy it with rl-money through the time card thing. This is also partly the reason why you shouldnt be able to buy immunity. You and everyone else will deny it, but this is how it is.

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There's the real problem right there.

Good luck trying to get CCP to nerf there profit making though.

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Originally by: xX******ERaBBiTXx

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firstly could goonswarm please stop postin in my topic...

second its easy to lose a vagabond very easy and requires tons of isk and skill at manual piloting

od's are getting a second penalty so we are going on modules from 2 bonuses to 2 penaltys and 1 bonus

so we have a difficult to pilot ship with high cost and extremely high risk of dying

lets not forget a raven with precisions fitted could solo not one but 2 vagas with ease... most vagabonds arent going over 7km..with good skills and implants (not any snakes or w/e) i go about 6.5lkm without gang bonus with a FULL speed fit and no damage mods....

lets not forget that most pilots train skills to 4 not 5 most of the time...

those dps calcs are way off i dont know what exactly kind of dps i do with lvl 4-5 skills in a vagabond but i do know its no where near 300+ not even close, maybe 200 max, and lets not forget shields 60% resists to explosive...and vagabonds standard dmg type exp

but thats not even the point, point is if polys/ods get stack nerfed now vagabond will be going sub 5km on a t2 setup and probably die everytime due to its natively low dps

and that bs technique does work, esp on slower nanos (long range ammo in short range weapons

the nerf whining is getting old, and frankly im really starting to tire of a game with so many nerf whiners..

minmatar is percieved the best for one reason...
because it changes the least...and the best avail setups are widely known...not because its actually the best...

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Originally by: The Nastrond

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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-If you keep dying in a vaga, maybe you better stick with simpler ships. This is a total FAILed argument and is basically a terrible lie. Vagas dont just die left and right.

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The recent report done by CCP showed that Vagabonds were being destroyed at a rate pretty much the same as all other HACs; clearly they're not the god-mode people make them out to be.

Being someone who enjoys going after outlaws (since they tend to give the best fights), I never really worry about seeing them in Vagabonds as they've got a snowflake's chance in hell of breaking my tank and can't do anything about me going back to a gate or station. Plus if theres a lag spike or they make a mistake, its easy for their action to result in me scooping their loot.

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Originally by: Semkhet

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: The Nastrond

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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-If you keep dying in a vaga, maybe you better stick with simpler ships. This is a total FAILed argument and is basically a terrible lie. Vagas dont just die left and right.

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The recent report done by CCP showed that Vagabonds were being destroyed at a rate pretty much the same as all other HACs; clearly they're not the god-mode people make them out to be.

Being someone who enjoys going after outlaws (since they tend to give the best fights), I never really worry about seeing them in Vagabonds as they've got a snowflake's chance in hell of breaking my tank and can't do anything about me going back to a gate or station. Plus if theres a lag spike or they make a mistake, its easy for their action to result in me scooping their loot.

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Also fail. You know why they get destroyed at the same rate? Because they are pushed further and closer to danger, because they can. Other hacs are more careful but it doesnt mean that you can fly other hacs solo in 0.0 and have the same survival rate as a vaga. This is not true and this is what you are trying to say.

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Want to buy a clue: Top 20 T2 ship destruction rates

As we can see, the vagabond destruction rate is just a bit higher than the one concerning cerberus'es.

Also, taking into account that the average stay on an EvE player corresponds to approximately 7 months, first not everybody and it's mother are flying HAC's, and despite Caldari being the major race in demographic density, second not every Caldari mission runner is regularly loosing cerberuses in missions.

So maybe Lyria could explain us HOW THE HELL cerberus & vagabond destruction rates are almost similar given the complete different set of abilities and role these ships imply.

I know that being able to display OBJECTIVE & FACTUAL numbers showing that vaga's have almost the same destruction rate like a non-nano HAC isn't what the anti-nano whining crowd appreciates, but so is reality.

And that you don't want to cope with reality should remain your sole and private burden...

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Semkhet

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Want to buy a clue: Top 20 T2 ship destruction rates

As we can see, the vagabond destruction rate is just a bit higher than the one concerning cerberus'es.

Also, taking into account that the average stay on an EvE player corresponds to approximately 7 months, first not everybody and it's mother are flying HAC's, and despite Caldari being the major race in demographic density, second not every Caldari mission runner is regularly loosing cerberuses in missions.

So maybe Lyria could explain us HOW THE HELL cerberus & vagabond destruction rates are almost similar given the complete different set of abilities and role these ships imply.

I know that being able to display OBJECTIVE & FACTUAL numbers showing that vaga's have almost the same destruction rate like a non-nano HAC isn't what the anti-nano whining crowd appreciates, but so is reality.

And that you don't want to cope with reality should remain your sole and private burden...

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This.

With all the 'x is unkillable' and 'you're a noob, you don't know how' arguments and counter-arguments, statistics are the best tool for proving that people who lament they can't kill vagas are indeed noobs which don't know how

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Originally by: Semkhet

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Im 110% sure that you actually didnt read what I wrote. You totally ignored that I above did explain the reason why destruction rates are the same of vaga and other hacs. WTB brain and glasses for you so you can read first.

Cope with reality? You gonna start getting on with personal attacks now just like the guy in the other thread? How about you just stfu and actually read what I posted instead. There we go, now we are speaking in the same manner. Happy?

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And you should start to use your brain for what nature intended it: THINKING.

A) Number of built Cerberus = Number of built Vagabonds.
B) Number of popped Cerberus slightly below number of popped vagas.

You are implying that Vagabonds used in PvP enjoy a much higher survival rate than Cerberuses, but this automatically implies that most of Cerberus deaths come from mission running.

In order words, you're stating that almost 50% of the Cerberus pilots are skilled enough to fly a HAC but don't know how to do these repetitive missions without loosing their ship.

Conclusion: You believe almost half of Cerberuses pilots are ********, while I believe most of the anti-nano whiners are so smart that they did not realize yet that pwning nanoships needs a bit more than just locking and opening fire...

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Originally by: Steyr Daghan

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Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld

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Originally by: welsh wizard

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Again its borked risk versus reward. If you fly a balanced fleet consisting of slower ships and win then the risk was greater but the reward was the same.

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Yeah, I know what you mean. There should be a risk involved when ratting/mining in 0.0.

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Eh? There is a risk involved.
To get jumped by a nanogang that takes very little risk.

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